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TOPIC: Ground Base? how come?

Ground Base? how come? 4 months 3 weeks ago #116837

  • punisher
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A lot of points Ive looked at online look like nice stuff. The few I have purchased, everyone asks, are the bases ground. Why do they ask that. I suppose it has something to do with older points. Just wanted to know.

These two were recent purchases. Its real ease to say Greenbriar on a auction. And it not look like a Greenbriar. It has characteristics, but? And the smaller point people kept saying Dalton, and if it was ground.

Thanks, :evil:

P.S. , Don't ask if the bases are ground, I have no idea :rolf:

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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 3 weeks ago #116846

  • Hoss
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Paul there is nothing in these photographs for scale. We do not know how big they are or what county and state they might be from. Is that glue on the one on the left or is it just glare?

On you little lanceolate point when they ask is it ground. they mean across the base and up the lateral sides. The reason they did the grinding is two fold in my opinion. One was to dull the sharp edge so it would not cut through the bindings in the haft. The second is because this is the thinnest part of the point. The haft it makes that the weakest part. The grinding actually adds strength to the physical shape of the point. Now on to why they ask this. Points when hafted stay in the haft. some are glued with hoof glue or pine pitch among other natural adhesives made from plants or animal parts. The binding would be on the lateral sides of the point. If the point was resharpened they could not sharpen under the bindings. SO there is a noticeable difference in the blade edge where the sharpening ended and the haft started. I hope this helps.
Notice the red lines on these two Dalton Points I am posting. On is from Missouri and on is from Arkansas. Both very authentic 9,000 + year old points. The red lines show the area where the points edge is ground. Across the base and up each side. The points straight on shots show the extent of resharpening these have had. Notice how steeply beveled the blade edges are. sorry very blurry pictures man. It is late so I will try for better ones tomorrow.
I hope all this has helped you understand Paul.
dalt.jpg


dalto.jpg


dalto1.jpg
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 3 weeks ago #116847

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I will try some better pictures tomorrow.
IMG_3044.jpg
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 3 weeks ago #116850

  • JoshinMO
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If you run your finger along it you will know. Neat points! :woohoo:
I call it a kaiser blade, mmm
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 3 weeks ago #116855

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punisher wrote:
A lot of points Ive looked at online look like nice stuff. The few I have purchased, everyone asks, are the bases ground. Why do they ask that. I suppose it has something to do with older points. Just wanted to know.

These two were recent purchases. Its real ease to say Greenbriar on a auction. And it not look like a Greenbriar. It has characteristics, but? And the smaller point people kept saying Dalton, and if it was ground.

Thanks, :evil:

P.S. , Don't ask if the bases are ground, I have no idea :rolf:

The bases don't look ground on those two.Some woodland points have light grinding on the bases.
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 2 weeks ago #116864

  • Olden
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.

Good explanation Hoss - just like to add that that a ground base is a trait on some point
types (Clovis, Dalton, Palmer, Kirk) and helps to identify them.
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 2 weeks ago #116874

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As Josh said and others are thinking, rub your fingertips across the base and base-sides and compare to the feeling of the upper sides. Like checking the sharpness of a knife you are sharpening. You will feel the difference, then when you look at it closer you will see the grinding/even crushing of the parts that are ground. You only have to feel and see this once and you'll have it down forever. :) One some pics you can plainly see that the flake scar sharp edge points have been ground, as in some of the other pics shown. If you are buying, there's no reason not to ask the seller if they think the base or any other part is ground....
Professor Shellman
Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by tomclark.
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 2 weeks ago #116903

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I am not sure that will help, and what has already been said is correct, and like what has been said there is a noticeable difference when running your finger over the edge as to where that basil grinding stops. But here is some pic's of a chunk of chert that I did a little percussion on and then ground it down. Time laps with pic's took about three minutes.

First pic raw material.

DSCN1063.JPG

second two pic's after percussion

DSCN1066.JPG


DSCN1069.JPG

last two pic's after grinding

DSCN1071.JPG


DSCN1072.JPG
Look to the ground for it holds the past!
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 2 weeks ago #116911

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Here is a personal find Clovis. This was just entered into the Connecticut Fluted Point Survey done last year by Michael Bouchard. Mike is an old friend of the family and an avocational archaeologist up there.
Sandy Hook CT
1flut_2014-03-11.jpg

This is same point with two views on top Distal and bottom proximal
not the best picture but you can see the gound edge along the base in the bottom picture,
3flutcopy.jpg


Here is another shot both lateral edges
4flut_2014-03-11.jpg


I am extremely proud of thatpoint. I showed this to Dr Mike Gramly and he said the material sources up in Maine. It is Munsungan Chert. That point traveled with a hunter over four hundred miles and had seen quite a bit of resharpening along the way.
Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by Hoss.
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 2 weeks ago #116950

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That is a good example and fine explanation Hoss. I would think if you can see it a pic it would be considered heavy grinding. Other times it takes a good feel to detect it. As Olden said, it can help in the identification of a piece. Basal grinding is primarily a Paleo and Early Archaic trait but as Bolen Bevel pointed out it was used although sparingly into the Woodland period
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 2 weeks ago #117011

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I want to Thank everyone for replying. Hoss, and Chase, thanks for the time you spent posting examples. Its like day and night. These guys look at auctions and ask if the points been ground, and if no they don't post another word. So I knew it had to do with age, I knew that much.

Thanks again, and I cant wait to feel a ground point so Ill know. Ill post some more pics. Its glue or tape. :evil:
Last Edit: 4 months 2 weeks ago by punisher.
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Ground Base? how come? 4 months 2 weeks ago #117016

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